Sirius and remus relationship trust

Why I Think Sirius Would Love Remus 'More.' as questioned by Rynne. - Harry Potter Essays

sirius and remus relationship trust

James thinks that Remus might be in a secret relationship with Lily. Well " Thanks Moony," Sirius said, grinning at his friend as Remus handed his essay back to him. . You'll just have to trust that Remus isn't shagging Lily.". Again, he spends PoA betraying Dumbledore's trust by not revealing Sirius for Now, what does that have to do with Sirius and Remus's relationship, both as. including your religious or political views, health, racial background, country of origin, sexual identity and/or personal relationships. To learn.

Professor Lupin had just gotten out of the next carriage. Only those who had been in the compartment on the train with Professor Lupin clapped hard, Harry among them. Professor Lupin looked particularly shabby next to all the other teachers in their best robes. Harry already likes this new capable professor, but takes notice of his poor state. Professor Snape, the Potions master, was staring along the staff table at Professor Lupin. It was common knowledge that Snape wanted the Defense Against the Dark Arts job, but even Harry, who hated Snape, was startled at the expression twisting his thin, sallow face.

It was beyond anger: Harry knew that expression only too well; it was the look Snape wore every time he set eyes on Harry. Snape hates him too. Bonus points for Lupin! You will need only your wands. I think that this is actually hugely important in setting up just how Harry comes to mentally regard Lupin as his best and most important teacher of defensive magic. In which the professor shows himself as impressive in other ways.

This is a conscious choice; most likely none of his professors while he was at school did this. He shows them the respect of calling them by their first names, recognizing them as individuals. If all goes well, Professor Boggart Snape will be forced into that vulture-topped hat, and that green dress, with that big red handbag. Prongs would have been so proud. He considered Harry for a moment.

sirius and remus relationship trust

But he does invite Harry in and offer him hospitality, which underscores his sympathy for a young, lonely boy. Would this have been enough to convince Lupin to tell Dumbledore about Sirius being an animagus? I would have to imagine so. Someone write this fic. Lupin raised his eyebrows.

sirius and remus relationship trust

So, so much to unpack here. The only person Harry had ever heard say the name aloud apart from himself was Professor Dumbledore. I imagined that people would panic.

Is there any chance of fixing it? Lupin looked at him quickly. They have been growing restless for some time… furious at his refusal to let them inside the grounds… I suppose they were the reason you fell? Why do they affect me like that? Am I just —? Here Harry is, making himself vulnerable to an authority figure who is not Dumbledore. When that didn't happen, he reasoned that was a stupid expectation. It was Lily and Remus; he'd have to watch and listen for a longer period of time to catch them at anything.

Their conversation was much less interesting than James would have hoped. He sat there for almost an hour as they discussed their teachers and the Hogsmeade weekend and the latest Death Eater killings. They talked about some muggle things that James didn't really know anything about and they talked about Lily's sister.

James was just about to give up and leave when the conversation turned to him. From his tone, James guessed they'd had this conversation many times before. James's ears perked up.

Not only had Remus and Lily shown no signs of being in a secret relationship, it appeared Remus had been trying to talk James up to Lily. That sounded suspiciously like… "Lily…" Remus said. You don't need to tell me again. Did Lily like Remus? Had they been in a relationship previously?

Why had Remus not told James if it had just been that Lily had unrequited feelings for him? He was practically hitting on her! If I was going to date any girl, I'm sure it'd be you. Nothing was happening between them, he reminded himself.

Lily wasn't secretly in a relationship with Remus. The important thing was that Remus was not going behind James's back. It did break his heart a little to know Lily liked someone else… but he could always change her mind.

She wouldn't like Remus forever, and surely James could convince her that he was the better option? Feeling bad for not trusting Remus more, James began to retreat once more. Like the last time, however, he was stopped by Lily's next sentence. Black is a lucky guy. Surely she didn't mean…? I always have to rewrite them for him, and he just expects me to do it. And he leaves them until the last minute. Okay, so maybe Moony was as gay as a daffodil.

That was surprising news. Although, James thought, it certainly explained how he could resist the charms of the beautiful Lily Evans. So when they were suspecting spies, they would suspect Remus, who they were no longer as close to. I really like this theory and definetly think there is enough cannon to believe it, however.

I don't know but great theory. Agraphia January 16th,3: This is totally plausable. Rell January 16th,3: But Remus seems the type to mingle socially. He's just not going to stick with the tight circle exclusively - maybe that's where a rift started.

I believe that Remus was the last on Dumbledores list of suspects. But it is interesting that he's away from his friends. I imagine that once information about the Potters started getting leaked by the spy, Sirius became extremley watchful of Remus because, as we saw with him making the switch, he didn't suspect Wormtail.

And maybe Remus' outsider ways were enough to convince Sirius that he was being seduced by the dark side while working with the werewolves.

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So Remus took to keeping his distance. Understandable because who likes to be scrutinized and blamed for something they didn't do? Now if James found out from someone that a close friend was a spy, most likely one of the marauders, the would all turn against each other. Probably they thought it was a close, but not best, friend at first, and then when information on the Potters was disclosed that only a Marauder would have been told, they all turned to eachother.

Now naturally, James would not be the spy, and they excluded Peter as well, because he was "weak" in their eyes.

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Naturally, Sirius and Remus turned on each other, and thought the other was a spy, but naturally didn't fully convince themselves of it since the loved each other so much in a brotherly way. I'm sure that the wearwolf factor did play a part in suspicion of Remus, but Sirius and James would probably never admit it, even to themselves.

Remus would probably suspect Sirius because, as in many Mauarader-era fanfics, Sirius would distance himself from Remus. Rell January 16th,4: This is entirely plausible Especially if Remus was a spy - that would earn him more respect right there.

And it's entirely in character for Remus not to go to Dumlbeore or some other higher authority to clear things up. Remus is very nonconfrontational. I think we have to go back to what Dumbledore said in OotP--that Voldemort has the talent for spreading discord among friends and acquaintances. A few choice comments on Peter's part could have thrown enough suspect on Lupin to take away totall trust. Shewoman January 16th,4: I wonder if Dumbledore had them in mind when he made that speech in GoF.

Rell, do we know that Lupin was spying on the werewolves during the First Vold War? I don't remember hearing about it until HBP--but of course I could have missed something.

By the way, I meant to say in my looooooonnnnnnnnnnng post earlier: I think Peter capitalized on whatever weakness he saw in the Marauder relationships. I could never be so friendly to someone who betrayed me like Sirius did you! Think of what he could do with that information! We don't know, and I wouldn't base too much on this idea. But there's no canon to reject it, and I think that it's quite likely.

You're suggesting that Sirius and James suspected Lupin of being the person close to the Potters who was passing information, but if he was off spying on the werewolves he wouldn't have BEEN close to the Potters and so wouldn't have been able to inform V of their movements which is what Fudge says the spy was doing in "Marauder's Map," PoA. Since the war was still going on up to the moment when Voldemort became Vapormort and wasn't going well for Our Side, eitherI don't think Dumbledore, if he'd sent Remus to spy on the werewolves, would have pulled him back.

Also, I haven't really presented one cohesive theory, I'm just sort of throwing out explanations to answer for different questions, but they don't all fit together. Shewoman January 16th,5: My impression in reading HBP was that this was the first time he'd been sent out; I'm sure we'd heard no mention of it earlier.

Anyone who knew would become a target. Remus could have been suspect because he was a werewolf. Rell January 17th,3: I still think it's a possibility, but there's nothing to really back me up, so fair enough: After having been friends with Remus for so long, I doubt his being a werewolf was at all and issue. The fact that this does not seem to have happened indicates to me that this was a slight nagging suspicion which I am more and more blaming on Peter working through Voldemortthat negated him from the secret keeper position.

An alternative scenario is that no one confronted Remus with their suspicions because they wanted to feed him false information, and then when Sirius proved to be the spy, no one mentioned anything to him.

I tend to doubt this because I think Remus would have picked up on it, and he was surprised to find that he had been suspected in the PoA shack scene. LM7 January 17th,3: I wonder if Lily had to do with the rift between the marauders, or if it really was all about the werewolf prank.

I wish JK could just write a book on harry's parents time at school and beyond dobbysfriend January 17th,3: Even friends can sometimes doubt each other during times of war. Remus was a werewolf, and even though his friends loved and trusted him, there could have been a little bit of doubt. Voldermort was very good in creating mistrust, even between friends.

I agree that there was mistrust, but not over the fact that Remus was a werewolf. I think they got over that at age The marauders were friends with a werewolf long enough to see through that particular prejudice. It would clear so many things up, and it would be very interesting to see how their friendship actually came to be, although we do have a vague idea.

If she doesn't though, perhaps a lot of this will be put to rest in book 7. I think this theory is very plausible, and definitely explains why Sirius suspected Lupin, even when it seemed that the two of them and James were much closer to each other than Pettigrew. But Harry was born a good three years after Lily and James passed out of Hogwarts.

I don't think that the werewolf prank influenced the rift. Plus even if it did why would it cvhange James' relationship with Remus??

sirius and remus relationship trust

But yes Sirius definitely suspected Remus. Maybe because he thought that GreyBack's brand of reasoning finally got to Remus. But Remus seemed to forgive Sirius very easily. Almost as if it was understandable that they thought he was the spy. He didn't seem to feel betrayed or hurt. Shack with the Marauders. I will assume it is involved with Finch taking the map from them. Naturally since only Sirus knew who the real traitor is, and not until that night, he suspected Lupin and vice versa.

No one considered Pettigrew. The reason Lupin isn't next to the others on the photo may be simply that he isn't as much a part of the group as the other three. Pettigrew is the follower and Lupin always seemed to me as the most independent one. Fostwolf March 1st,9: He seems the type not to sponge off friends.

Save for the last sentence, I disagree with that theory.

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I can just imagine James forcing tons of money on Remus if he was having a hard time of it just like Harry forcing tons of stuff onto Ron, who is very poor: And even if he didn't accept the money, I can't see that money-status would interfere with friendship--unless Remus let it, but I think his friends were too important to him.

I'm drawn to the theory that he sort of became a recluse through shame and fear of himself and what he might do, thus drawing Sirius's suspicion. Moriath March 1st, I don't think it was about the money but the social status could have made all the difference.

Neither Sirius nor James had to work. They probably spent a lot of time together, no matter whether they were doing Order business or playing Quidditch or charming Sirius' bike. Remus had to work and he had a hard time keeping a job. In the picture Moody had of the original Order, Remus stands closer to Moody and Dumbledore than to his friends.

This could be a sign that he developed into a different direction than his friends, that he was forced to face reality and discrimination earlier than them.

I would not say interest but necessity drove them apart. Maybe we're reading a bit too much into the whole picture position theory. From everything we know of James and Sirius I highly doubt petty things like money and social status could ahve come in between the kind of relationship the marauders shared. I wouldn't call it petty, I'd call it life. Friends drifting apart due to different living conditions I don't say that Sirius ignored Remus because he worked or that he thought little of him, just that Remus wasn't as much around as James and possibly Peter and that his absence could have been one reason why Sirius suspected Remus.

sirius and remus relationship trust

That makes total sense. Add in the fact that Remus was always more responsible than Sirius and James and alas, he is an outsider. Pettigrew was so inconsequential that he was totally overlooked. Voldemort knew that Peter was just a squeeky little nobody and he used that to his advantage.

That's interesting because, James made Head Boy. Did Remus suspect anyone of being the traitor? I mean, he does act surprised that Sirius thought it was him Shrieking Shack scene. Wouldn't he have naturally assumed it was Sirius in turn and therefore not been surprised at Sirius thinking it was him? If so, why didn't he say anything to Dumbledore or did he?

sirius and remus relationship trust

Or was he just out of the picture no reference to the Order photograph? The "Rift Theory" might explain this somehow, but I'm not sure. Anyway, back on topic These are all interesting hypothoses. I just don't think there's enough proof in the books to support that social status had an impact, though.

If social status is the issue, however, how is it very different from "Pureblood Pride"? Wouldn't the difference between the Magical world and the Muggle world make a rift between James and Lily, then? Wouldn't they have fallen apart, then, if there worlds were so different as you are saying Remus's and Sirius's were Not supporting the theory, just saying amouseguru March 2nd,6: In the Shack, Sirius and Lupin each ask forgiveness for suspecting the other.

It also seems very out of character for James and Sirius to suspect Lupin on the basis of his being a werewolf -- Rowling has shown us several different times their lack of prejudice in this respect e. And the way in which Lupin speaks of his assignment with the werewolves in HBP gave me the distinct impression that he had not done this before. The most common belief seems to be that not suspecting Peter as the spy is simply another example of the Marauders underestimating him.

Are They Gay? - Remus Lupin and Sirius Black (Wolfstar)

However, this seems foolish in the extreme when your pool of suspects has been narrowed to three. My favorite theory that I've seen on these boards a few times is that the reason Peter was never suspected is that he was Muggleborn. If Peter is Muggleborn, the whole situation makes much more sense to me. Suddenly his friends don't seem so stupid for overlooking him -- he would never even be suspected. Sirius was of course a pureblood, and JKR has told in an interview that Remus is a half-blood.

Remember the weird conversation in HBP when during their "Levicorpus" argument, Hermione tells Ron and Harry that the Death Eaters would be glad to let either of them, as a pureblood and a half-blood, join up? And I'm sure, as earlier posters have mentioned, that Peter was busy running back and forth between James, Sirius, and Remus stirring up suspicions to further prevent anyone even thinking of him.

And that would explain why Sirius and Remus can forgive each other so easily -- if it never felt "right" to believe the other was a traitor, but there seemed to be absolutely no alternative suspect. I didn't get the feeling the whole half blood thing was a real issue within their group. In fact isn't the superiority complex Sirius' mother has one of the reasons he runs away from home and goes to live with James and his parents?

I think its more likely that James, Sirius and Remus see each other as more skilled, more couragous, and therefore bigger targets for deatheaters than Wormtail. As bigger targets, they are more likely to be sought after and put into a position they would have to choose between their own survival and keeping the Potters safe.

It seems true, from the quotes given, that neither Remus or Sirius talked to each other of there suspicions, but I can't help but wonder if either spoke to Lily and James about it. Perhaps this is the kindness Lily showed Lupin - not siding with Sirius? Peter would not be suspected of going and seeking LV, since even while at school he comes across as less than confident, nervous etc.

Frankly, IMO if cornered by a DE or LV, he would either be canon fodder due to a lack of skill or a traitor yes high insight is handy as it is the only way he could get himself out of a tight spot.